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Post by >>Riz! on Jun 20, 2008 11:59:29 GMT -5
Please let us know what you think
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Post by houseofmystery on Jun 21, 2008 7:29:29 GMT -5
Hmm. This reminds me of the "New Maps of Hell" arc from JLA: Classified. I loved that arc, it was genius. This was... Ominous. I mean, wow, you're taking the Justice League to their lowest, and its quite dark and exciting, but it just seemed very by the book. All the quipping and dialogue felt really self aware, like you had a point to get across and was doing it as fast as you could, and the final moments, with half the team going to "Hell" was pretty grim. Firestorm's ordeal was very emotive, as I'm assuming it was meant to be  and I think it was *obvious* that Stein was going to send Lorraine to Raymond. Surprised to see he ended up as a Professor! Anyway, I was hoping that the heroes wouldn't get suckered into their own, personal, worst nightmareTM but you fell into that pretty immediately! Anyways, it was a quick, fluent read, as one would expect from Dave, but I just wish the plot was left to breath a bit. It feels very tight, and I want the story to relax a bit  "Eh, cosmic Hell, we've faced worse." ... Lol. |
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Post by Idlewilder on Jun 21, 2008 9:12:29 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to read this Charlie; I know I speak for Riz as well, when I say we really appreciate it! Hmm. This reminds me of the "New Maps of Hell" arc from JLA: Classified. I loved that arc, it was genius. Really? I thought it was kinda boring... Then again, I don't have the man-crush on Warren Ellis that you do  . Regardless, the similarities are only superficial. Riz has a hell of a ride planned, and I'm having a lot of fun helping him translate his story and ideas to paper (I think I probably speak for Brian on that, as well). Ominous, yes, I hope... But taking them to their lowest? Not sure if that's what we're doing... I think maybe you've misread that (at least we didn't put any of that in there intentionally). Glad you find it exciting, though! The drama continues to ratchet up--- and the stakes are high!I think I see what you mean there. The advantages of starting out a team title with a big, action epic is that it's (hopefully) exciting and fun, but you lose some opportunities on characterization. Giving the characters personality through dialogue is a pretty cheap trick, but an effective one--- and hey! I never said we were doing War and Peace, here! ;D That's a relief. Hell ain't no picnic. (And Kornugia is more of a proto-hell, or a kind of Platonic ideal of hell. The real hell is in Detroit.) Not hard to guess, considering that he's the missing element in the Firestorm equation right now, but Riz has a very cool character arc for the Nuclear Woman planned, and it might not be headed where you think it is... Well, the other option was a pleasant trip down memory lane, recalling fond Christmasses past... But that didn't quite seem to fit a HELL DIMENSION  ! Seriously, though, this is another character building technique that I think is pretty important, especially since we are still getting to know these character... What makes them tick? How is Jon-El distinct from Kal-El--- how are they alike? Actually, I think you may find some interesting stuff come up in Kornugia... Just for you, next issue: a soothing interlude with serene pan-pipe music where the Flash and Carrie recal fond moments from their youth. Or we'll just get straight into some ass-kicking, explosive cosmic action. (I think Riz is leaning towards the latter, but I'll see what I can do ) [/quote] Ha! Nothing like superhero banter! Gotta love that camaraderie! Thanks a lot for the feedback, Charlie! We hope to see you around next issue! (BTW, what did you think of that cover? Doesn't it just convey a vast, crushing emptiness and despair? Hey, how about a SPOILER tease for next issue: Kornugia is not empty...) |
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Post by houseofmystery on Jun 21, 2008 9:31:13 GMT -5
Kornugia is not empty?! Like in New Maps of Hell then? I loved the cover. The cover was why I read the book! I wasn't even aware you were writing it until I scrolled up to check! Borize, you continue to deliver on Earth-2, and any other Earth you put your mind to |
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Post by Idlewilder on Jun 21, 2008 10:09:19 GMT -5
Kornugia is not empty?! Like in New Maps of Hell then? I was commenting on the appearance of emptiness in Kornugia. That fact that two concepts of hell (ours and Ellis') "are not empty" does not make them copies of each other, nor does it prove whatever point you think you are making. In fact, I'm willing to bet that most literary or graphic depictions of hell show it populated in one manner or another... Mine, for instance, would be a never-ending conversation with you, with no wall nearby to bash my head against... |
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killerseamonkey
Staff 
the earth died screaming while I lay dreaming
Posts: 211
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Post by killerseamonkey on Jun 21, 2008 11:18:59 GMT -5
Nice job fellas. Great empty space cover, Riz. Instantly delivers the scene and hooks the reader in.
Intriguing story that kept me reading along. But the strength as always in David's writing is the description through strong diction and character motions that convey the scene without dialogue. I liked the exploration of Jon-El. The son of Superman is a character rife with story possibilities, more so in the ways he can't be ever really be Superman than in the ways he can.
Waiting patiently for part three now... *taps foot anxiously*
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Post by UltimateDC on Jun 21, 2008 18:40:02 GMT -5
Nice stuff. Kind of a break between the action of Issue 1 and a set-up for the action of Issue 3. I'm glad some of the characters (Carrie, Kyle and Jon) got more screen time. I'm looking forward to the next one.
And for the record, Warren Ellis is a genius. If only for Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E.
-UDC
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Post by Idlewilder on Jun 21, 2008 21:37:05 GMT -5
Nice job fellas. Great empty space cover, Riz. Instantly delivers the scene and hooks the reader in. Intriguing story that kept me reading along. But the strength as always in David's writing is the description through strong diction and character motions that convey the scene without dialogue. I liked the exploration of Jon-El. The son of Superman is a character rife with story possibilities, more so in the ways he can't be ever really be Superman than in the ways he can. Waiting patiently for part three now... *taps foot anxiously* Thanks for reading, Brandon--- you will always be the Godfather of Earth Two (and thus the step-godfather of the DC3, at least in my book, as this was the concept that led me to create the site)--- and as such, you're feedback means a lot. The nice thing about this collaboration with Riz is that while he focuses on story, I get to create a "feel", and I always harken back to your original designs and notes for inspitation. I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to Jon-El; he's not Superman (well, he's not Kal-El), but he'll never stop trying to be his father. And not in any kind of angsty-way, but in a way any kid that swings a Louisville Slugger tries to be Babe Ruth. And the same might be said for Connor, Lyta and Carrie (and Kyle, to a certain extent). Thanks for keeping up with us--- this title is on a six-week schedule (give or take ), so we can expect to see #3 around the first week of August. |
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Post by Idlewilder on Jun 21, 2008 21:41:28 GMT -5
Nice stuff. Kind of a break between the action of Issue 1 and a set-up for the action of Issue 3. I'm glad some of the characters (Carrie, Kyle and Jon) got more screen time. I'm looking forward to the next one. And for the record, Warren Ellis is a genius. If only for Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. -UDC Glad you liked it, UDC! We'll be shining the spotlight on all of the Leaguers, but if you want to see some more Carrie Allen, check out Flash #23 at the DC2, her first official appearance! |
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Post by starlord on Jun 22, 2008 0:51:13 GMT -5
Another astounding issue! This just builds and builds, and every character jumps off the page, sometimes with the use of only one or two words. It's one of David's many strengths that I admire.
The plot itself is intriguing as well, and knowing how hard Riz has been working on this world, I must give him a huge round of applause for showing us that he's a young man of many talents.
And speaking of talents... that cover has to be one of my all time favorites. It makes me claustrophobic just looking at it!
I liked the look into Jon's mind, and the horrible past that he lives with. This is a truly tortured soul, and it was conveyed here with wonderful nuances that made it very real and extremely tragic.
This book just keeps delivering, and I can't wait to see what happens next.
Also, a HUGE thanks to Riz for actually editing this and putting it up for me. I appreciate it very much.
5 stars, gentlemen.
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Post by Idlewilder on Jun 22, 2008 8:06:23 GMT -5
Another astounding issue! This just builds and builds, and every character jumps off the page, sometimes with the use of only one or two words. It's one of David's many strengths that I admire. LOL! Reminds of that line from Amadeus when the Emperor critiques Mozart's work by suggesting there are "too many notes!" advising him to "cut a few," and it'll be fine. It's no secret I'm no fan of overwriting, or excessively wordy fan fiction. Few fan fic writers have the chops to get away with it (Susan Hillwig and Ellen Fleischer to name two of the best), and I have no problem playing Salieri to their Mozart (not that I intend to poison anyway in a fit of jealous rage... Well, maybe Susan ;D). But I digress! Thank you, Brian, for appreciating my economy of verbiage! Well said! His masterminding of the Earth Two line is destined to go down as a tour de force unrivalled by any fan ficcer in our motley community! Actually, you may have pointed out a flaw... As Charlie pointed out above, Jon is experiencing his worst nightmare (Kornugia is exploiting his fears and insecurities), not reliving a memory; Kal-El is alive and well in Earth Two, living happily ever after in Kandor with Lois and Lara (though I wouldn't be too surprised to see him pop up where and when he is least expected... ). Was anyone else mislead by my vagueness on that score? (Thanks for the head's-up, partner !) Thanks a bunch for the feedback, buddy! |
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Post by UltimateDC on Jun 23, 2008 4:29:43 GMT -5
Woah, hold up. Was Jon's bit a nightmare or a memory?
-UDC
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Post by >>Riz! on Jun 23, 2008 6:04:21 GMT -5
It was his worst nightmare.
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killerseamonkey
Staff
the earth died screaming while I lay dreaming
Posts: 211
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Post by killerseamonkey on Jun 23, 2008 8:29:28 GMT -5
...you will always be the Godfather of Earth Two... *resists the urge to add this tag under his avatar* |
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Post by Idlewilder on Jun 23, 2008 9:00:44 GMT -5
...you will always be the Godfather of Earth Two... *resists the urge to add this tag under his avatar* LOL! I think I also coined "Conceptualizer" in your honor, as well... |
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Post by arcalian on Jun 26, 2008 21:22:04 GMT -5
I really relate to Firestorm's anguish here, and her response to Wonder Woman is something that I might say.
Connor is spot on, of course.
I dunno if we can trust our resident mad scientist.
Raven, I hope making that portal isn't doing Irrevocably Bad Things to you....
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Post by Idlewilder on Jun 27, 2008 7:23:25 GMT -5
I really relate to Firestorm's anguish here, and her response to Wonder Woman is something that I might say. Yeah, I think Lorraine's reaction is a very human one, especially regarding someone she is so intimately connected with. I imagine the professor dying might feel a little like a cross between an amputation and a lobotomy! Why thank you! This is my first time writing this character, and he's turning out to be a lot of fun. I think the trick is to find the "inner Ollie" in him. Hmmm... He is a bit of a crackpot... Raven is one of those characters (like Resurrection Man) that when Riz told me he wanted her on the team I was all like: "Huh?" In terms of the larger overarching story Riz has planned for this title, she totally makes sense... because dealing with "Irrevocably Bad Things" is what Raven does best! Thanks very much for reading, Jay, and for the feedback! |
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Post by mockingbird on Jul 1, 2008 11:00:10 GMT -5
Hm...I can't find anything to really criticise about the story, but somehow it didn't really drag me in. I wonder if it's the same thing Don mentioned over on Titans-- too much action too fast without a real chance to care about the characters. Something about jumping right into cosmic forces might be too much. Maybe we could have done seeing a good old-fashioned fistfight closer to the start.
Particularly, I noticed that there wasn't enough transition between the omniscient-narrator scene and the one in Firestorm's head. That could have used a little bit of narration to bring it in and out, and could have made it a little more powerful.
The story itself looks cool, but going into everyone's deepest fears just seems a little too soon. I'll have to see how it unfolds, and certainly it's a classic plot-- not like i'm not doing the same thing in Gotham Girls #8 and 9 (/ shameless plugging)-- but it might have been better suited for later in the run.
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Post by Idlewilder on Jul 1, 2008 20:53:29 GMT -5
Hm...I can't find anything to really criticise about the story, but somehow it didn't really drag me in. I wonder if it's the same thing Don mentioned over on Titans-- too much action too fast without a real chance to care about the characters. Something about jumping right into cosmic forces might be too much. Maybe we could have done seeing a good old-fashioned fistfight closer to the start. Actually, that is how we started the first issue ! Too bad this didn't drag you in, Sam. I think the hook for this series is the legacy aspect of the Justice League, which we will see explored in greater depth with every issue--- but you gotta have action, too, and Riz has worked up a great adventure story for this opening arc! That was an exercise in expositional economy. My biggest pet peeve is over-writting in fan fiction, and I felt this scene (which was essentially a dialogue in a shared-consciousness) needed little else but the bare sentiment (not a big fan of melodrama, either, though it does have it's place). Well, I went outside of Riz's outline to do the psychological stuff in Kornugia, mainly becasue as good as the story is (and it gets better!), I needed to know these characters better as their scripter, so I'm hoping it connects the reader to them, as well. Thanks very much for reading, Sam! We appreciate the feedback! |
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Post by mockingbird on Jul 1, 2008 21:07:14 GMT -5
That was an exercise in expositional economy. My biggest pet peeve is over-writting in fan fiction, and I felt this scene (which was essentially a dialogue in a shared-consciousness) needed little else but the bare sentiment (not a big fan of melodrama, either, though it does have it's place). Well, exercises are good I just didn't think it worked. It was a little too much of a slam, where you needed kind of a fade-in. If it were a movie, you pretty much would have cut directly to the in-her-head scene from the outside one with no transition at all. What I think you needed was a wide shot to open and close it, and make it smoother. Appreciate trying new stuff, it's always neat to play around with what you can do in text. |
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and I think it was *obvious* that Stein was going to send Lorraine to Raymond. Surprised to see he ended up as a Professor! Anyway, I was hoping that the heroes wouldn't get suckered into their own, personal, worst nightmareTM but you fell into that pretty immediately! Anyways, it was a quick, fluent read, as one would expect from Dave, but I just wish the plot was left to breath a bit. It feels very tight, and I want the story to relax a bit 
. Regardless, the similarities are only superficial. Riz has a hell of a ride planned, and I'm having a lot of fun helping him translate his story and ideas to paper (I think I probably speak for Brian on that, as well).
!
