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Post by Lissilambe on Oct 6, 2007 8:27:57 GMT -5
Please rate this issue and let us know what you think!
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Post by >>Riz! on Oct 6, 2007 8:49:16 GMT -5
What a start for the DC3. I loved the Superman and Batman issues, Wonder Woman was not as good as these two, but it was okay. Bats reminds me a little bit of Daredevil, but that's okay. I give you 4,5 stars  |
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Post by Lissilambe on Oct 6, 2007 9:07:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback, Riz! Glad you liked the Superman and Batman stuff, and I hope to eventually win you over with my re-imagining of Wonder Woman (are you familiar with the Lost World of the Warlord that I've meshed with Wonder Woman?)--- I had a lot of fun writing all three (but Superman is my favorite )! And how about the incredible wotk of our art team...! Carlos and Vanessa are absolutely incredible, and really knocked it out of the park with these first images! |
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Post by >>Riz! on Oct 6, 2007 12:02:22 GMT -5
The only time I read about Skartaris is in he Jurgens' TT run, when Prysm was there...
Not realy a fan of it...
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Post by lissilambe on Oct 6, 2007 12:06:09 GMT -5
I'm going into this with the perception that if you want to "completely reimagine" characters, then make your own and tell your own stories. Ultimate-style reboots can be fun, mind you, and the occasional limited experiment is entertaining (Tangent and Stan Lee Imagines), but otherwise, just make your own characters.
(and I say this so people know where I'm coming from...please, please, please, I ask you all to respect the fact that I have opinions, and that I have a foundation and not to argue and debate this with me like I'm wrong or foolish to hold this perspective. I've grown very tired of that kind of behavior in these kinds of fora; please accept that this is how I feel about it)
So that said, Earth-X seems to be running from about a ten yard penalty for me. On the technical front, the stories overall were written, and conveyed most of the leads very well. Very few hiccups with grammar, and the scenes of the smaller stages were set up well enough for sure.
I do feel that some of the elements were piled on in some cases, and it made it tough to really connect to the overall world. There were a couple of times where a character was kind of sort of introduced, but not really, and in such a case, I wonder if it should have been bothered, or saved for stronger impact down the road (such as Lana Lang in teh Superman story).
I didn't care much for whiny ole Emo-Man. "Look how astoundingly cool I am! Feel bad for me!" No. not so much. I did like Carol though. She was fun.
Jackson Reed is an interesting character. The set up for this one was much stronger, the stage set much more clearly and the introduced characters were brought in to be much more distinct. Probably the strongest of the entries. Though the big problem for me is that ultimately, this is just blind Batman with a different name. Or Daredevil with a different name. There was no difference between Jackson Reed's inner monologue as Batman then we've seen with Bruce Wayne as Batman, so this is where it shines through most sharply the crux of my problems "If this is Batman, then just be Batman. If it's not Batman, then make a new character".
Wonder Woman as princess of Skartaris. Interesing notion. I like the Skartaris setting, so seeing Travis go the way he did was disheartening. lol I really don't get enough of a feel for Wonder Woman in this issue, and so it's the weakest of the three. I don't really get a feel for any of the characters in this issue, though it's probably the one with the most developmental promise to me.
Design-wise, the covers were good (the Batman the best of the lot). I don't like the designs for Superman or Wonder Woman though. I forgive the design on Supeman though, based on the premise set up in issue one. If he gets a new costume down the road for "real superheroing" here's hoping he gets something witha better design.
Wonder WOman's costume is a disaster. Sorry. Just how I feel. It's over designed, with too many little bits and pieces here and there. I hate the skull over her crotch. Just hate it. So "tentacle anime/lethal genitalia" looking for me. If Byrne has a (rightful I believe) concern over how the star-spangled shorts can sometimes leave a star in a rather skeevy place, then this is out and out mocking that. And I seriously dislike the whip. It seems to be picked as a "bad girl" choice for a "bad girl" design, rahter than keeping the lasso or mutating it into a more interesting choice of weapons or tools.
I'll stop in to check issue 2. There were some hits and misses, with promise to be found, so I'll be curious to see how that promise is played out.
Take care
Don
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Post by UltimateDC on Oct 6, 2007 17:10:36 GMT -5
I have to agree with liss on this point: This is not what I expected. I thought this would be an almost complete overhaul of well known characters where the only similarity was a name and some powers. It does indeed seem like an "ultimised" version of the big three.
That being said, it's a pretty good kickoff to the multiverse. Batman is probably my favorite of the three, followed by Superman (Who is in an awkard situation) and then Wonder Woman (Who didn't really do much and does have a pretty lame costume). I'm really looking forward to the rest of the multiverse.
-UDC
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Post by Lissilambe on Oct 6, 2007 21:30:03 GMT -5
I'm going into this with the perception that if you want to "completely reimagine" characters, then make your own and tell your own stories. Ultimate-style reboots can be fun, mind you, and the occasional limited experiment is entertaining (Tangent and Stan Lee Imagines), but otherwise, just make your own characters. (and I say this so people know where I'm coming from...please, please, please, I ask you all to respect the fact that I have opinions, and that I have a foundation and not to argue and debate this with me like I'm wrong or foolish to hold this perspective. I've grown very tired of that kind of behavior in these kinds of fora; please accept that this is how I feel about it) Don, I absolutely respect your opinions and your right to have them--- but that doesn't mean we can't have honest and good-natured discourse about them, especially if I disagree with them. I think I'm paraphrasing a Founding Father or two, there... I intentionally focused on the leads in this introductory issue, but wanted to give my readers a glimpse of the larger universe (and cast of characters) they will be up against. All of them--- especially Lana!--- will be given a more in-depth treatment in future issues. LOL! Kent is a country mile from Clark, for sure, and has a lot of growing up to do. I hope he's not too sympathetic--- I plan on creating a complex character, far from the altruistic Superman we know and love. But if you didn't like this version, you would've hated the one in the first draft! Glad you liked Jackson. I hope that I can more sharply define him in future issues as someone who is not-Bruce-but still-Batman. Not sure how to answer the Daredevil comparison; while I'm aware of the character, I've never read him (or seen the movie)--- but I suppose the blindness, coupled with the urban streetfighter persona will draw inevtiable comparisons. I just thought the blindness and the bat-motiff went hand-in-hand... I actually agonized about this for a while, but I finally decided that my own love and appreciation for Travis Morgan as a character would work against me in this title: Wonder Woman shouldn't have to share the spotlight in her own series! That's looking on the bright side! ;D There is actually quite a bit left to reveal about our Warrior Princess, and the Amazon parallels will become more pronounced. I wanted this one to be an edge of your seat action ride (thus, the one long, uncut scene), though I think I still managed to get in some decent backstory. Aw, you don't like Superman's costume?!? I love Carlos' redesign, probably the most of all the Earth-X redesigns! I think he captured the perfect Alex Raymond retro-Sci-Fi feel I asked for...! LOL! I will refrain from the obvious Freudian implications and simply beg the suspension of the ridiculous that all fantasist clothiers require. Fair enough (though I'm not sure if I'd characterize Astara--- or Astrid--- as a "bad girl", at least not in the Selina Kyle mold). I really didn't have Riz's representation of Superwoman from the CSA in mind when I gave Astara a whip; I simply was looking for something less passive and more offensive than a lasso--- something more befitting a warrior princess. Thanks very much for the reading, and for the well-considered feedback, Don! |
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Post by arcalian on Oct 6, 2007 21:30:24 GMT -5
Superman--Clark Kent Superman--had never been one of my favorites. Couldn't tell you why. I used to think it was because he was a "Goody two shoes" of the old school, but Captain Marvel was even more that way, and I always liked him.
I understand Armstrong Superman more than Kent Superman. Armstrong I "get". Yeah, he has all the right moves and does what's expected of him, but he's disdainful of his Hollywood role. We already know his boss is a right shady *******, and it's only a matter of time before Armstrong finds this out.
Even I, someone who has read Marvel Comics less than a dozen times in my life, could see that this was BlackDaredevil!Batman, but you know what, who cares? I have ever confidence that it will be handled intelligently and done well. Where the character goes from here is what will define him. The shocking death of Bruce Wayne and the Red-Hood-who-may-not-become-the-Joker are a good start.
I never disliked Diana Wonder Woman, but neither did she interest me. Astara Wonder Woman has a chance to win my interest in her as a character as she goes along her voyage of discovery. So far so good.
Five stars!
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Post by lissilambe on Oct 6, 2007 22:57:14 GMT -5
The problem with not making a character sympathetic is that you must then make him entertaining in some other fashion. For me, he wasn't. If the lead doesn't give me a reason to want to read him (sympathy or entertaining bastardy of some stripe) then I've no interest in him. I deal with enough whiny emo-twits in real life. One who can do whatever he wants and yet STILL wants me to feel for him when he says "oh woe is me" is someone I have no interest in. So here's hoping he grows up somewhat soon.
As for the notion from Arcalian that Edge has to be shady, I hope that gets disproven. You want Earth-X to really rewrite the DCU tropes? That'll do it. That'll shake me up. that'll grab my attention.
as for the Costume...too gimmicky for me. Perfect for a b-series of action movies though. I have to admit, the Earth-X habit of one color for the front of hte boots and a second for the rest of ht eboot is as puzzling and silly looking a trend as Morrison/Quitely's Earth-2 CSA running around with funky metal discs sticking here and there for no reason. And isn't nearly as cool looking in my opinion.
Having Bruce Wayne get eaten kind of broke my handle on Batman, to be honest. I understand where the writer was going with this, but it drove me right back to the front door of my "If you're doing this world, make original characters then", held the door open for me, and bid me a good afternoon and hoped I enjoyed the drive.
As for Wonder Woman, I think you made the right call killing Travis. I hate saying htat LOL but no, that was the call to make, and one I might have made (I'd have definitely found some way to reduce his role, this is Wonder Woman's book, not the Warlord's).
As for the whip being less passive than a lasso, I disagree with that assessment. If you wanted a more aggressive weapon, you should have gone for something that doesn't add to the BDSM/hentai feel of Astrid's costume.
Finally, her costume. It's more than tke crotch-skull...this whole costume is seriously one of the worst. I mean, we're talking Looker bad. Headband-wearing Black Canary bad (though I did like that costume so hey, what do I know? LOL)
There is good in this title though. I'm expecting great things from this title, largely because with me, you've set yourself such a tough bar to surpass (as defined by the first part of my first post). I think the segment I'm most excited about is Wonder Woman though.
Take care
Don
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Post by lissilambe on Oct 6, 2007 23:49:45 GMT -5
Believe me, I feel horrible hating it this much. I know you (and by you, I mean all our artists) put lots of work into the designs on this board. And it really has nothing to do with my preference for the iconic design, especially since Wonder Woman's is rather...well, it's not a great design to start with. Unless Lynda Carter is filling it out. (maybe mnot so much anymore though ) Anyway, I'm not sure what else to say about the design. David seems happy with it, so really, any suggestions to improve it is pointless, since you say you worked closely with him on it. It's what he wants. Take care Don |
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Post by Lissilambe on Oct 7, 2007 8:15:07 GMT -5
I have to agree with liss on this point: This is not what I expected. I thought this would be an almost complete overhaul of well known characters where the only similarity was a name and some powers. It does indeed seem like an "ultimised" version of the big three. That being said, it's a pretty good kickoff to the multiverse. Batman is probably my favorite of the three, followed by Superman (Who is in an awkard situation) and then Wonder Woman (Who didn't really do much and does have a pretty lame costume). I'm really looking forward to the rest of the multiverse. -UDC Not sure how I can answer for your expectations, UDC (and Don, who I thik had a similar criticism)--- Earth-X was never intended to be our "Ultimate" Earth (that would be our Maximum! line, which debuts in two weeks), nor was the intention to entirely overhaul the Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman concepts: the intention was to put entirely different people in those costumes, capes and cowls, not to recreate the hero. I like the heroes! I didn't want to create a different Superman wholecloth, I wanted to see how someone other than Clark Kent would handle being Superman. For the record, I don't think this approach is anything like an Ultimate version (which for me, is a boiled-down, traditionalist but realistic interpretation). I hope any pre-conceived notions haven't colored your (and Don's) enjoyment of the story, and that you can approach it for what it is, and not what you expected it to be... That aside, thanks for reading and for the feedback! I'm glad you are looking forward to seeing what else we have in-store (some really neat stuff!), and I hope you will come back next month for Brave and the Bold #1, where I reimagine Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, the Flash and Aquaman! |
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Post by Lissilambe on Oct 7, 2007 8:38:50 GMT -5
Superman--Clark Kent Superman--had never been one of my favorites. Couldn't tell you why. I used to think it was because he was a "Goody two shoes" of the old school, but Captain Marvel was even more that way, and I always liked him. LOL! I always liked Superman for that very reason. There is something pure and symbolic about the character, and ideal to which it one should always strive (though I think most of us would fall short of that sort of altruism). But does that make the character the most fun to write...? Perhaps not. So I see your point. I think the most fun part of this re-imagining is making Superman act like a normal mortal would if gifted with the powers of a god. Is he going to get it right? Is he going to screw up? Screw up big time, perhaps? To a certain extent, I want to the reader in Kent's shoes, and show just how different (and difficult) it is trying to make your way in the world as Superman. I hope Morgan Edge will develop into a complex character, with consistent and reasonable motivations. Is he shady? Well, he is a film studio executive, and a corporate CEO... Infer from that what you will ! Exactly. I considered that it was my job in this first issue to merely hook the reader and want him/her to come back to find out more. The more one gets to know Jackson Reed, the more one will see the differences between him and Bruce Wayne (I think many of them are apparent already) and between his Batman and Marvel's Daredevil. I was playing with reader expectation a little bit there, perhaps not too successfully. I introduced Batman, Bruce Wayne--- and certain other character, never explicitly saying who was who (careful not to write any sight-imagery into Batman's scene with Det. Corrigan), hoping that the death of Bruce Wayne and the reveal of Jackson as Batman would be a nice twist--- did that come across for anyone? Lots of fun stuff coming up for Astara. There is a larger cast of characters (and love interests) waiting in the wings--- not to mention tons of story potential!--- that I just can't wait to get to! Thanks for reading, Jay, and for the insightful feedback! |
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Post by Lissilambe on Oct 7, 2007 8:46:51 GMT -5
WOW! I feel terrible that the WW costume is not pleasing. I worked closely with David to design this costume as I did with most of the Earth X designs. I know any redesign will not be as good as the ones we have all come to love from the Original DC Universe, but I am open to suggestions on improving The designs. Car Comic books are full of outrageous designs and wild costumes. I am less concerned with aesthetic and practicality than imagery and what the costume evokes. If this was a fully illustrated work of sequential art this would be a more pressing concern (that is, if it were more than two readers who disliked the costume), but as it is, I hardly think we need to go back to the drawing board so soon--- we're simply not going to please everyone, nor is is wise to expect to. Me, I love the costume--- especially the Skartaris-looking skull! Just wait until it starts talking... |
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Post by lissilambe on Oct 7, 2007 11:27:28 GMT -5
Like I had said earlier, david likes the costume and in the end, his opinion is all that matters on that issue. However, I'll warn you now, if the skull really does start talking...I'm outta here. I knew the point behind Earth-X was not to do Ultimate earth. I wasn't confused on that point at all, so all due respect to UlDC, don't mix me up with his opinions. I just don't see the point. Superman ISN'T some other character, he is what's been handed to us. If you want to do your take on it, do Hyperion, do Gladiator, do Apollo. That's where I stand on it. Doesn't mean Earth-X isn't valid however, and that's why I am coming back (for the time being ). As for your attempt at sleight of hand in Batman...sorry. I knew it was your new guy from teh start, since the whole point of Earth-X is to put new people in the costumes. That's what I meant in my previous comment about Bruce's appearance (and death) driving me back to my front door and bidding me farewell. I'm trying to get past my waffling on the concept of Earth-X and this battered home the whole idea. I do want to see what differentiates Jackson from Bruce as the Bat. The inner monologue was almost word for word what you read in Batman's internal monologues, so I'll be curious to see the changes build up. Take care Don |
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Post by starlord on Oct 7, 2007 23:06:03 GMT -5
Another opening, another show. And I couldn't have been more pleased. After reading everyone's comments I was a little hesitant as well as excited, but I found that my hestancy was for naught. Superman was probably my favorite of the three. Great dynamics between Kent and Carol, and I love the mixture of Hal Jordan's world with that of Clark Kents. It's a great combination and was done with the usual finesse that I always expect from David. Is this Superman a bit emo? I don't know, I've never been quite sure what emo really means. Emu, yes... Elmo... definately, but emo? I do know this Superman has some serious issue's in that head of his and the fact that he doesn't know where he comes from is why I find him the most intriguing out of the three characters. 5 stars for this one alone. Batman: Okay, yeah, I saw it coming, but did that stop me from enjoying the hell out of this. Not in the least. I really hope we don't have to wait a long time for the reveal of the Red Hood. The highlight of this one for me was seeing Jim Corrigan in his role, as well as Father Gordon... again... brilliant turns here. I have to give this one 5 stars as well. Wonder Woman: Okay, see, here is the only critique I have on this, and as David knows, I rarely say anything negative about anyone's work. However, when DC2 started three years ago, the guy who wrote the first several issue's of Wonder Woman spoiled the hell out of me. I honestly thought it was one of the absolute best WW stories I have ever read... and yes, I would boldly stand behind saying that it was right up there with Perez and Rucka's run in DC proper. Do I like this different Wonder Woman? Well, I didn't dislike her at all. Again, it was a total different concept, and being this was just the introduction (and probably the most action packed of the three stories), it was good enough for me to come back for more. 4 stars on this one. Sorry, David, that other guy over at DC2 spoiled WW for me three years ago. All in all, 5 stars, a grand and glorious beginning to the sister sight of DC2! As for the art, since I can't draw stick figures worth a darn, I'm impressed with everyone's work on this. Although I have to admit that the Batman take is my favorite, by far. p.s. Sorry, Don, but if that skull starts talking, I am so there! ;D |
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Post by houseofmystery on Oct 13, 2007 11:20:00 GMT -5
I'm still apprehensive about the DC3.
But hey, David's writing again, so here I am.
Firstly, got to say, these read as Elseworlds. Always had trouble with Elseworlds "back on the farm", you could say, because I like my characters as they are, so I struggle to get through them. But I just set my preconceptions aside, and dove him.
ONWARD WITH FEEDBACK!!
Superman: Tightly written, lot's of intrigue, and a cool back story. The mocking of established DC continuity ("What's Krypton?" "A gas!" I think the line was, made me giggle) was a bit, I don't know, I felt awkward. Like you were taking the piss, and I know you weren't so don't eat me, heh. I'm sure that there has been another representation of Superman as a movie star, and that I didn't like it then, so for me, this was one of the strongest writing wise, but one of the weakest story preference wise. I really got a 30s feeling from the story, quite pulpy and a lot of fun, but the whole Superman-movie-star deal didn't do it for me. Lots of potential though! Four stars!
Batman: Bugger. Loved it. Loved it loved it loved it. That is all.
Well, no, it isn't. Loved Corrigan (more than I like Jim Gordon in regular DCU!!) and the eccentricities to his character which I think I'm sure to steal in the new year. Blind Batman for me was cool. Got a Spawn vibe from his presentation, but the Daredevil similarities were obvious but not distracting. I feel that when it comes to this, you've got to leave any preconceptions at the door, else you're going to get burned. I tried to do that with Superman, but it just... Bugged me. Nevermind though!! Red Hood, though not SEEN, was a TERRIFYING character, and Killer-Croc, I assume, is a vicious sonofabitch. That's how I like him being used. An animal. Not a gangboss, a kidnapper, a tortured soul, but a friggin' reptile! Nice one! Five stars! I'd give it more, but there's something f'd up about your grading system, heh.
Wonder Woman: Nice. Not my favourite, Batman wins at that, but a really nice story. I agree with Don (HAHAH, DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING, DID YOU?!) on the overdone costume (how very... 90s), but the character was cool, and I'm always torn by the "SO MUCH TO SAY, TOO LITTLE TIME!" situation, but I think this was a time when it was good. Travis Morgan is a favourite concept/character for me, and I intend to bring him into the DC2 when I next have a chance to, next year. Very nice back story, lots to look forward to in the future. I might stick around. Also four, but verging on five! Liked it.
Now, I'll see you later, I'm getting back to writing Doctor Occult #3.
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Post by houseofmystery on Oct 13, 2007 11:20:42 GMT -5
I apologize about the mess my feedback was above. I wrote it in a manic rush.
Peace!
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Post by batarang on Oct 22, 2007 13:42:08 GMT -5
Okay, I had pretty high expectations for this, with David, one of the best fanfic writers I know of, writing.
I was very impressed.
I really liked Superman. To me this was an interesting and totally different take on the character. The movie star angle is fascinating and opens a lot of angles to explore. This is clearly not Clark Kent, a character I LOVE but not very realistic in his personality/emotional presentation. What would a real person do if he/she possessed these godlike powers? Would there be insecurities? Doubts? Frustrations? Absolutely. And I like the whole "celebrity superhero" concept. Hell, Elvis made some pretty bad movies in his day.
Batman was also well done. The twist at the end actually was very effective. As a blind artist, I would expect this Batman to possess more empathy and sensitivity to his surroundings, as opposed to the "singularly driven" model we're used to. Not that I don't like the single-minded Batman, but I would like to see the differences (and vulnerabilities) a hero with this kind of handicap would have. The blindness will obviously invite comparisons to Daredevil, but we'll see where this series goes before I make that judgment.
Wonder Woman. I never read the Warlord so those references will be lost on me, and that's probably a good thing. I was definitely entertained; this had the most slam-bang action, and the promise of a Wonder Woman truly dedicated to the "warrior princess" motif holds a lot of promise for me. I love the whip instaed of the lasso. And crotch skulls work for me.
All in all, a terrific start, and just what I hoped this site would deliver.
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Post by Lissilambe on Oct 23, 2007 17:34:37 GMT -5
Okay, I had pretty high expectations for this, with David, one of the best fanfic writers I know of, writing. I was very impressed. I really liked Superman. To me this was an interesting and totally different take on the character. The movie star angle is fascinating and opens a lot of angles to explore. This is clearly not Clark Kent, a character I LOVE but not very realistic in his personality/emotional presentation. What would a real person do if he/she possessed these godlike powers? Would there be insecurities? Doubts? Frustrations? Absolutely. And I like the whole "celebrity superhero" concept. Hell, Elvis made some pretty bad movies in his day. Batman was also well done. The twist at the end actually was very effective. As a blind artist, I would expect this Batman to possess more empathy and sensitivity to his surroundings, as opposed to the "singularly driven" model we're used to. Not that I don't like the single-minded Batman, but I would like to see the differences (and vulnerabilities) a hero with this kind of handicap would have. The blindness will obviously invite comparisons to Daredevil, but we'll see where this series goes before I make that judgment. Wonder Woman. I never read the Warlord so those references will be lost on me, and that's probably a good thing. I was definitely entertained; this had the most slam-bang action, and the promise of a Wonder Woman truly dedicated to the "warrior princess" motif holds a lot of promise for me. I love the whip instaed of the lasso. And crotch skulls work for me. All in all, a terrific start, and just what I hoped this site would deliver. Thanks for the feedback, Aaron! I think we share a very similar aesthetic. Glad you enjoyed the issue  . |
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Post by a2uton on Oct 23, 2007 23:04:26 GMT -5
Several posters have remarked about the similiarities between Batman and Daredevil. Well, yes, but I myself have wondered what Batman would be like if he were created today. Its almost unheard of to develop a guy in a mask without any powers today. So yeah, if you call him Batman you probably make him blind with maybe radar. Or at least enhanced senses. Otherwise the bat gimmick doesn't work.
Oh, and today he also might fly.
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Post by Lissilambe on Oct 24, 2007 15:00:10 GMT -5
Some good points, a2uton!
Thanks for reading the issue.
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Post by Merai on Nov 24, 2007 8:26:24 GMT -5
Well, I can't match up in depth or detail to many of the very well thought out, well articulated views leveled above, but I shall do my best. Firstly, I want to note I have only read the Batman and Superman re-imaginings, although I intend to read the Wonder Woman one presently. That said, allow me to explain my views: I enjoy the mixing of different DC continuities- in this case, giving "Superman" some Green Lantern background in the form of Carol Ferris and Coast City. It's always interesting to see different characters react to other environments like that, even if they are re-imagined. I also want to say upfront, there was constant name-dropping throughout which I really enjoyed. The references to Seigel and Shuster and even minor mentions of Lana Lang, these are all little details I love, and I always think that the best stories are rooted in the little details. It's interesting to see Morgan Edge recast in this role. When I think Edge, I think of his first appearances waaay back in Kirby's Jimmy Olsen- I'm a bigtime Kirby fan, so I always love when his characters are included, especially in these re-imaginings. Details aside, my biggest problem is that I don't yet care about Kent Armstrong. It's not that I dislike him, or that I feel I need to know more, it's that I just don't care about him. I feel he isn't a deep enough character yet- and yes, it may be part one, but the Batman story shows that this doesn't make it too early to care about the characters. Still, the idea that he plays "Superman" in movies as well, the different origin and especially the idea of military parentage... these are all good ideas, and I look forward to see them expanded upon. Other than the title character, I had few problems with this one. (Though incidentally, I'm interested in seeing why Martian Manhunter has chosen to take a red, finned form. ) The Batman story- firstly, very nice use of misdirection. I guessed it would be Jackson the second his athlete's body was mentioned, having had no prior knowledge about the series concept, but even so, the *actual* reveal was handled very well and I can think of no better way to show that Bruce Wayne isn't Batman than to have his head eaten by what I assume to be the Earth-X Killer Croc. I'm never a fan of present tense writing, even when dealing with what Jackson is seeing, but that may just be a personal quibble. (Er... well... not seeing, but you know what I mean. ) The writing was generally good- very descriptive, at times, but never too long winded. I too am interested to see how you differentiate him from Batman but I'll certainly give you the benefit of the doubt, since that couldn't be delved into this issue without spoiling the surprise. I'll read up on the Wonder Woman part later, and also try and contribute some thoughts on the costumes, though I'm not an art person. |
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Post by batmantwinky on Dec 29, 2007 3:00:37 GMT -5
LOL! I always liked Superman for that very reason. There is something pure and symbolic about the character, and ideal to which it one should always strive (though I think most of us would fall short of that sort of altruism). But does that make the character the most fun to write...? Perhaps not. So I see your point. I think the most fun part of this re-imagining is making Superman act like a normal mortal would if gifted with the powers of a god. Is he going to get it right? Is he going to screw up? Screw up big time, perhaps? To a certain extent, I want to the reader in Kent's shoes, and show just how different (and difficult) it is trying to make your way in the world as Superman. Hey, we have the exact same views on Superman. Glad to see it. I thought the new Supes was kinda interesting. I didn't see him as whiny or anything but just a young person trying to find his purpose. As Carol said, everyone wants to know what they're meant for in life and so I saw his questioning as a sort of universal struggle that everyone goes through. I think it's got similar themes in tune with the Smallville television show but shown through someone else's eyes instead of Clark Kent. I will admit, I thought the blending of GL's life with Superman's was a little strange at first but I'll get used to it. As for the Batman one, I also went into it knowing that Bruce Wayne wasn't Batman but what came as a huge surprise to me was Jim Corrigan as Batman's ally in the police force. After reading Gotham Central and developing a love for it's characters and story, I kinda grew to detest Jim Corrigan. Almost worse than The Joker (if that's even possible). So it's gonna take me some time to come around to the notion of Corrigan being a force for good. The other shock was Jim Gordon as a priest. I'm very intrigued to hear his backstory and learn what led him to take that particular path in his life. I guess the main source of interest for me (for now) is with Batman's supporting cast, including Kirk Langstrom. But I'll keep reading and I'm sure I'll grow to care about Jackson as I get to know him better. Now with Wonder Woman; my only exposure to Warlord stories was when I picked up the first issue of the most recent series. So I hardly know anything about him or Skartarus. I didn't even get the connection in the WW story until I was here reading feedback from people. I think I'll do some research on Warlord and that way I'll be a bit more knowledgeable for the next issue. As for the costume, the skull doesn't really look like it's on the crotch level. I'd say it looks more like it's on her waist. Sorta like a belt buckle. So it doesn't bother me as much as others. And now that I know it was inspired by Warlord's realm, I think it does look pretty appropriate to that dimension, although I don't know how well it would be received in our world. Overall, I'd say I'd give the whole effort 4 stars (kinda averaging the three stories together). I'll be back next issue to see what develops. Oh, but if they're going to continue to be posted together, I think I may just read one at a time and post on them individually because it took me quite awhile to read the whole thing. |
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Post by eric the pilot on Jan 12, 2008 23:33:49 GMT -5
I admit to having read through some of the comments before taking a look at this. It certainly a different concept than I was expecting. It seems almost akin to what they did with the Tangent or Just Imagine stories where you took some of the base elements and the name and kind of went off in your own direction.
There's a little bit of a disconnect to see Superman taking on Green Lantern characters and locales when it's usually the other way around.
It's an interesting story - there were times where I wasn't quite sure where it was set, some of the language, the idea of being under contract to a studio, even some of the dialogue pacing seemed like it was set in the '40s - even the movies themselves seemed more like the old time serials. But then there were other elements that clearly placed it in the modern day. So that was sort of odd.
Kent himself is an odd character, and I think like a lot of people I'm not quite sure how we're supposed to take him, but I imagine other issues will fill that in better.
Batman I think works a bit better as a character than this version of Superman, I liked the internal narration structure of it and the concepts are warped in some interesting ways.
This version of Corrigan seems like a nice cross between mainstream DCU Gordon and Bullock, and seems to be a capable ally.
The twist with Bruce Wayne is pretty cool as well, gives this new Batman a familiar angst, yet it works on a whole new level.
I can't comment too much on Wonder Woman, I'm not particularly familiar with her characters and mythos, nor of the Warlord series this appears to be a hybrid with, but I thought it was well done and enjoyable.
On the whole I liked this, it was certainly an attempt to do something different, and it's a good job.
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Post by Idlewilder on Jan 23, 2008 18:12:46 GMT -5
Well, I can't match up in depth or detail to many of the very well thought out, well articulated views leveled above, but I shall do my best. Firstly, I want to note I have only read the Batman and Superman re-imaginings, although I intend to read the Wonder Woman one presently. That said, allow me to explain my views: I enjoy the mixing of different DC continuities- in this case, giving "Superman" some Green Lantern background in the form of Carol Ferris and Coast City. It's always interesting to see different characters react to other environments like that, even if they are re-imagined. I also want to say upfront, there was constant name-dropping throughout which I really enjoyed. The references to Seigel and Shuster and even minor mentions of Lana Lang, these are all little details I love, and I always think that the best stories are rooted in the little details. Thanks, Merai. I wanted to people the world with familiar characters, but different enough to raise some eyebrows, and develope some novel relationships. Fair enough. Though, for what it's worth (if I am able to get back to Earth-X  ), I think you will actually see that Kent is a far more complex character than Jackson--- though perhaps not as likable. My favorite aspect of this incarnation! I have plans to do some things with this... He's Martian! From the Red Planet! DC goofed: he should have been red to begin with! And I just love fins (though Vanessa turned it into something more resembling a spike). ;D Thank you very much! And, yes: I wanted a definitive statement that Bruce Wayne was not Batman. Having his head chewed off was all I could come up with  . I'm with you on this, actually. I shun the present tense in most situations, however I think it works best in a first-person narrative, and lends the character an immediacy I would otherwise have to work much harder for (and I needed that for Jackson, so the reader would not catch on to the lack of visual imagery). I appreciate that, Merai! I think you'll find in future issues that Jackson is very distinct from Bruce (if I do my job right, that is). Thanks for reading, and for the feedback! |
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Post by Idlewilder on Jan 23, 2008 18:20:58 GMT -5
LOL! I always liked Superman for that very reason. There is something pure and symbolic about the character, and ideal to which it one should always strive (though I think most of us would fall short of that sort of altruism). But does that make the character the most fun to write...? Perhaps not. So I see your point. I think the most fun part of this re-imagining is making Superman act like a normal mortal would if gifted with the powers of a god. Is he going to get it right? Is he going to screw up? Screw up big time, perhaps? To a certain extent, I want to the reader in Kent's shoes, and show just how different (and difficult) it is trying to make your way in the world as Superman. Hey, we have the exact same views on Superman. Glad to see it. I thought the new Supes was kinda interesting. I didn't see him as whiny or anything but just a young person trying to find his purpose. As Carol said, everyone wants to know what they're meant for in life and so I saw his questioning as a sort of universal struggle that everyone goes through. I think it's got similar themes in tune with the Smallville television show but shown through someone else's eyes instead of Clark Kent. Glad you picked up on that, Twinky. Superman's journey will be very much about purpose and maturity, destiny vs. ego. See, I'm coming at Jim Corrigan from an entirely different angle, but I won't complain if the latter-day presentation gives the character some unlooked-for nuance ;D. There is an interesting story that will unfold here, but I will say Gordon's role as a kind of moral compass and confessor is not to far afield from his DCU version (at least the way I've read the character in recent years) Ah, Langstrom. Something special is planned for Gotham's resident mad scientist...! Thanks for reading and for the feedback, Twinky! |
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Post by Idlewilder on Jan 23, 2008 18:32:07 GMT -5
I admit to having read through some of the comments before taking a look at this. It certainly a different concept than I was expecting. It seems almost akin to what they did with the Tangent or Just Imagine stories where you took some of the base elements and the name and kind of went off in your own direction. Actually, that is exactly the approach we are going for with Earth-X. I think that is an astute observation, Eric. I wanted this piece to have a nostalgic, old Hollywood vibe, but didn't want to set it in the past... Let's call Coast City a throwback to those days, based around the merchandising empire that is the "Superman" brand (as marketed by Morgan Edge). Odd is good. Hopefully, "odd" will transition into "interesting" as the story unfolds. Thank you very much. Actually, I worked hard to differentiate this from the inevitable comparisons to Daredevil. Or maybe he's just a reflection of the original Golden Age version. I haven't quite nailed down the direction I want to go with Corrigan, but suffice to say, he will remain a presence in this title. Thank you, sir! I appreciate the kind words. Thanks, again. I knew this was going to be the most inaccesible story, so I had hoped to at least give the reader an interesting tale to dive into. Wonder Woman's story, of all of the Big Three, is the biggest, and most epic, and hopefully will be fun to read! Thanks for reading, and for the feedback! |
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), I think you will actually see that Kent is a far more complex character than Jackson--- though perhaps not as likable.
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